Q and A with Dr. Julie Harper: Treating acne and rosacea

MONTEREY, CALIF. – Julie C. Harper, MD, likes to warn her patients with acne about an unexpected possible side effect of treatment with isotretinoin. “You may become a dermatologist.”

After all, that’s exactly how Dr. Harper herself was inspired to pursue a career in dermatology. As a teenager, she had acne and was treated with isotretinoin three times. The experience was so influential that she went into dermatology with a specific goal of treating acne.

“I love all of it, and in my practice I treat everything,” said Dr. Harper, “but I have a special interest in helping people with acne be as clear as they can be.” Indeed, she helped found the American Acne and Rosacea Society, which she now serves as president.

Dr. Harper, who practices in Birmingham, Ala., spoke about her approach to acne and rosacea in an interview following one of her presentations at the annual Coastal Dermatology Symposium.

DERMATOLOGY NEWS: What drew you to focus on rosacea in addition to acne?

Dr. Harper: Acne and rosacea are often coupled together because both of them affect the face, and they create red bumps on the skin. But they’re very distinct diagnoses, and their pathogenesis is completely different. My interest in treating rosacea was secondary to acne, but I love to treat them both.

DN: Are they both equally challenging to treat?

Dr. Harper: In some ways, rosacea is more challenging to treat.

With acne, we have a pretty good algorithm for how we treat it. We can end with isotretinoin, which for many people is a cure. But we really don’t have that last step in rosacea.

DN: What are you doing differently with rosacea than you might not have done a few years ago?

Dr. Harper: More combination therapy. The trend is more toward a comprehensive combination approach to treat everything we see in rosacea: Hit this as hard as you can. Hit everything you see. Part of that is because we have some newer drugs like the alpha-adrenergic agonists that work differently than anything we’ve had before.

We have a couple of good combination studies. One study examined ivermectin plus brimonidine (J Drugs Dermatol. 2017 Sep 1;16[9]:909-16). Those two worked better together if you did not delay the brimonidine for 4 weeks and only used it with the ivermectin for part of the study.


There are also the newer studies that look at doxycycline plus ivermectin and compare it with ivermectin plus placebo. The combination works better, and it works faster (Adv Ther. 2016;33[9]:1481-1501; unpublished clinical trial data on file with Galderma, NCT03075891).

On top of those treatments, we may need to add laser for background redness, or an oral beta-blocker for flushing if the patient still complains of the symptoms.

DN: What’s most challenging to treat in rosacea?

Dr. Harper: The redness and phymatous changes are the hardest. Once you get phymatous changes, you have to do a physical modality.

Most of us think that if we treat rosacea aggressively up front, maybe we can prevent the phymatous changes. Prevention is key, just like prevention of acne scarring is easier than getting rid of scars once you have it.

Other than phyma, it’s the redness. Even the Food and Drug Administration–approved products we have for redness don’t work for flushing. Patients stand up to give up a presentation and “Oh no, here comes a red face.” That’s the hardest part to manage.

DN: How do beta-blockers fare at treating flushing?

Dr. Harper: They can help, but I don’t know that they can knock it out completely.

And we should remember that there are no FDA-approved beta-blockers to treat this. Most of the data we have are small case reports or case series. We don’t have a lot of data.

DN: Is there anything that’s used too much in rosacea?

Dr. Harper: Probably metronidazole. I understand why it’s used. It’s not a bad drug. But we have better drugs now.

I think we use metronidazole whenever things aren’t covered by insurance. And we use it to do too many things. Don’t try to make metronidazole do everything.

Metronidazole is FDA-approved for papules and pustules. It wasn’t ever intended to help with flushing and background erythema, and you’ll need to use something else with it.

DN: What’s coming down the line for rosacea?

Dr. Harper: We’ve got a couple new antibiotics: a new topical antibiotic and another oral antibiotic.

DN: Let’s talk about acne. Do you think isotretinoin is underused?

Dr. Harper: We should be using more of it. Why do we hold this drug hostage from our patients? In many people, it will cure their acne if they take it for just 5-6 months.

Are we worried about inflammatory bowel disease? The most recent studies say that’s not really an association. Are we worried about depression? We’ve had a meta-analysis that suggests if you take all that data, depression – if anything – gets better in people who take isotretinoin (Am J Gastroenterol. 2014 Apr;109[4]:563-9; J Am Acad Dermatol. 2017 Jun;76[6]:1068-76.e9).

We need to take [the risk with pregnancy] seriously. But we need to be putting more people on the drug and giving them the opportunity to be clear.

 

DN: What should be used less in acne?

Dr. Harper: We should use less antibiotics and more of everything else – more hormonal treatments, more isotretinoin, more topical retinoids.

That doesn’t mean no antibiotics. But instead of doing three repetitive courses of antibiotics, do one. If acne recurs, go to isotretinoin. Go to an alternative.

DN: What about spironolactone in acne?

Dr. Harper: It’s a blood pressure medicine, but it’s got an antiandrogenic qualities. It blocks the androgen receptor so it’s like getting the benefits of the birth control pill without the estrogen. It can be very beneficial for acne in women.

Its use increased from 2004 to 2013, and people are getting the hang of it. But when you compare it with the number of antibiotics prescribed, antibiotics are written a whole lot more (J Am Acad Dermatol. 2017 Sep;77[3],456-63.e4).

DN: Is there anything that is especially helpful in treating men?

Dr. Harper: Part of the way that birth control and spironolactone work is by decreasing sebum, and we don’t have anything like that for men. But potentially, there may be a topical antiandrogen product that decreases sebum.

DN: How do you deal with patients who are in a lot of distress because of acne or rosacea?

Dr. Harper: You listen to them and tell them you hear what they’re saying. “I understand that you want to be clear, and I’ll help you do that.”

Listen to why they’re not doing well and why they’re frustrated with what they’ve used. They might say, “I don’t use what you gave me because I don’t like the way it feels.” Or, “the drug that you prescribed is too expensive.”

If they’re really doing everything you said, and they’re not doing well, in both of those conditions it may be time for isotretinoin.

In acne, I’ve never seen it fail. It doesn’t work as predictably in rosacea, but it does pretty well if you do low-dose, intermittent isotretinoin.

DN: Do you ever try treatments that are unexpected for acne and rosacea?

Dr. Harper: If you use the right combination of what we have, and try to target pathogenesis, I don’t think we have to go off the reservation very often. We can get good results with what we have available.

The Coastal Dermatology Symposium is jointly presented by the University of Louisville and Global Academy for Medical Education. This publication and Global Academy for Medical Education are both owned by Frontline Medical Communications. Dr. Harper disclosed speaker/advisor relationships with Allergan, Bayer, BioPharmX, Galderma, La Roche–Posay, and Ortho Pharmaceutical, and has served as an investigator for Bayer.

MONTEREY, CALIF. – Julie C. Harper, MD, likes to warn her patients with acne about an unexpected possible side effect of treatment with isotretinoin. “You may become a dermatologist.”

After all, that’s exactly how Dr. Harper herself was inspired to pursue a career in dermatology. As a teenager, she had acne and was treated with isotretinoin three times. The experience was so influential that she went into dermatology with a specific goal of treating acne.

“I love all of it, and in my practice I treat everything,” said Dr. Harper, “but I have a special interest in helping people with acne be as clear as they can be.” Indeed, she helped found the American Acne and Rosacea Society, which she now serves as president.

Dr. Harper, who practices in Birmingham, Ala., spoke about her approach to acne and rosacea in an interview following one of her presentations at the annual Coastal Dermatology Symposium.

DERMATOLOGY NEWS: What drew you to focus on rosacea in addition to acne?

Dr. Harper: Acne and rosacea are often coupled together because both of them affect the face, and they create red bumps on the skin. But they’re very distinct diagnoses, and their pathogenesis is completely different. My interest in treating rosacea was secondary to acne, but I love to treat them both.

DN: Are they both equally challenging to treat?

Dr. Harper: In some ways, rosacea is more challenging to treat.

With acne, we have a pretty good algorithm for how we treat it. We can end with isotretinoin, which for many people is a cure. But we really don’t have that last step in rosacea.

DN: What are you doing differently with rosacea than you might not have done a few years ago?

Dr. Harper: More combination therapy. The trend is more toward a comprehensive combination approach to treat everything we see in rosacea: Hit this as hard as you can. Hit everything you see. Part of that is because we have some newer drugs like the alpha-adrenergic agonists that work differently than anything we’ve had before.

We have a couple of good combination studies. One study examined ivermectin plus brimonidine (J Drugs Dermatol. 2017 Sep 1;16[9]:909-16). Those two worked better together if you did not delay the brimonidine for 4 weeks and only used it with the ivermectin for part of the study.


There are also the newer studies that look at doxycycline plus ivermectin and compare it with ivermectin plus placebo. The combination works better, and it works faster (Adv Ther. 2016;33[9]:1481-1501; unpublished clinical trial data on file with Galderma, NCT03075891).

On top of those treatments, we may need to add laser for background redness, or an oral beta-blocker for flushing if the patient still complains of the symptoms.

DN: What’s most challenging to treat in rosacea?

Dr. Harper: The redness and phymatous changes are the hardest. Once you get phymatous changes, you have to do a physical modality.

Most of us think that if we treat rosacea aggressively up front, maybe we can prevent the phymatous changes. Prevention is key, just like prevention of acne scarring is easier than getting rid of scars once you have it.

Other than phyma, it’s the redness. Even the Food and Drug Administration–approved products we have for redness don’t work for flushing. Patients stand up to give up a presentation and “Oh no, here comes a red face.” That’s the hardest part to manage.

DN: How do beta-blockers fare at treating flushing?

Dr. Harper: They can help, but I don’t know that they can knock it out completely.

And we should remember that there are no FDA-approved beta-blockers to treat this. Most of the data we have are small case reports or case series. We don’t have a lot of data.

DN: Is there anything that’s used too much in rosacea?

Dr. Harper: Probably metronidazole. I understand why it’s used. It’s not a bad drug. But we have better drugs now.

I think we use metronidazole whenever things aren’t covered by insurance. And we use it to do too many things. Don’t try to make metronidazole do everything.

Metronidazole is FDA-approved for papules and pustules. It wasn’t ever intended to help with flushing and background erythema, and you’ll need to use something else with it.

DN: What’s coming down the line for rosacea?

Dr. Harper: We’ve got a couple new antibiotics: a new topical antibiotic and another oral antibiotic.

DN: Let’s talk about acne. Do you think isotretinoin is underused?

Dr. Harper: We should be using more of it. Why do we hold this drug hostage from our patients? In many people, it will cure their acne if they take it for just 5-6 months.

Are we worried about inflammatory bowel disease? The most recent studies say that’s not really an association. Are we worried about depression? We’ve had a meta-analysis that suggests if you take all that data, depression – if anything – gets better in people who take isotretinoin (Am J Gastroenterol. 2014 Apr;109[4]:563-9; J Am Acad Dermatol. 2017 Jun;76[6]:1068-76.e9).

We need to take [the risk with pregnancy] seriously. But we need to be putting more people on the drug and giving them the opportunity to be clear.

 

DN: What should be used less in acne?

Dr. Harper: We should use less antibiotics and more of everything else – more hormonal treatments, more isotretinoin, more topical retinoids.

That doesn’t mean no antibiotics. But instead of doing three repetitive courses of antibiotics, do one. If acne recurs, go to isotretinoin. Go to an alternative.

DN: What about spironolactone in acne?

Dr. Harper: It’s a blood pressure medicine, but it’s got an antiandrogenic qualities. It blocks the androgen receptor so it’s like getting the benefits of the birth control pill without the estrogen. It can be very beneficial for acne in women.

Its use increased from 2004 to 2013, and people are getting the hang of it. But when you compare it with the number of antibiotics prescribed, antibiotics are written a whole lot more (J Am Acad Dermatol. 2017 Sep;77[3],456-63.e4).

DN: Is there anything that is especially helpful in treating men?

Dr. Harper: Part of the way that birth control and spironolactone work is by decreasing sebum, and we don’t have anything like that for men. But potentially, there may be a topical antiandrogen product that decreases sebum.

DN: How do you deal with patients who are in a lot of distress because of acne or rosacea?

Dr. Harper: You listen to them and tell them you hear what they’re saying. “I understand that you want to be clear, and I’ll help you do that.”

Listen to why they’re not doing well and why they’re frustrated with what they’ve used. They might say, “I don’t use what you gave me because I don’t like the way it feels.” Or, “the drug that you prescribed is too expensive.”

If they’re really doing everything you said, and they’re not doing well, in both of those conditions it may be time for isotretinoin.

In acne, I’ve never seen it fail. It doesn’t work as predictably in rosacea, but it does pretty well if you do low-dose, intermittent isotretinoin.

DN: Do you ever try treatments that are unexpected for acne and rosacea?

Dr. Harper: If you use the right combination of what we have, and try to target pathogenesis, I don’t think we have to go off the reservation very often. We can get good results with what we have available.

The Coastal Dermatology Symposium is jointly presented by the University of Louisville and Global Academy for Medical Education. This publication and Global Academy for Medical Education are both owned by Frontline Medical Communications. Dr. Harper disclosed speaker/advisor relationships with Allergan, Bayer, BioPharmX, Galderma, La Roche–Posay, and Ortho Pharmaceutical, and has served as an investigator for Bayer.

MONTEREY, CALIF. – Julie C. Harper, MD, likes to warn her patients with acne about an unexpected possible side effect of treatment with isotretinoin. “You may become a dermatologist.”

After all, that’s exactly how Dr. Harper herself was inspired to pursue a career in dermatology. As a teenager, she had acne and was treated with isotretinoin three times. The experience was so influential that she went into dermatology with a specific goal of treating acne.

“I love all of it, and in my practice I treat everything,” said Dr. Harper, “but I have a special interest in helping people with acne be as clear as they can be.” Indeed, she helped found the American Acne and Rosacea Society, which she now serves as president.

Dr. Harper, who practices in Birmingham, Ala., spoke about her approach to acne and rosacea in an interview following one of her presentations at the annual Coastal Dermatology Symposium.

DERMATOLOGY NEWS: What drew you to focus on rosacea in addition to acne?

Dr. Harper: Acne and rosacea are often coupled together because both of them affect the face, and they create red bumps on the skin. But they’re very distinct diagnoses, and their pathogenesis is completely different. My interest in treating rosacea was secondary to acne, but I love to treat them both.

DN: Are they both equally challenging to treat?

Dr. Harper: In some ways, rosacea is more challenging to treat.

With acne, we have a pretty good algorithm for how we treat it. We can end with isotretinoin, which for many people is a cure. But we really don’t have that last step in rosacea.

DN: What are you doing differently with rosacea than you might not have done a few years ago?

Dr. Harper: More combination therapy. The trend is more toward a comprehensive combination approach to treat everything we see in rosacea: Hit this as hard as you can. Hit everything you see. Part of that is because we have some newer drugs like the alpha-adrenergic agonists that work differently than anything we’ve had before.

We have a couple of good combination studies. One study examined ivermectin plus brimonidine (J Drugs Dermatol. 2017 Sep 1;16[9]:909-16). Those two worked better together if you did not delay the brimonidine for 4 weeks and only used it with the ivermectin for part of the study.


There are also the newer studies that look at doxycycline plus ivermectin and compare it with ivermectin plus placebo. The combination works better, and it works faster (Adv Ther. 2016;33[9]:1481-1501; unpublished clinical trial data on file with Galderma, NCT03075891).

On top of those treatments, we may need to add laser for background redness, or an oral beta-blocker for flushing if the patient still complains of the symptoms.

DN: What’s most challenging to treat in rosacea?

Dr. Harper: The redness and phymatous changes are the hardest. Once you get phymatous changes, you have to do a physical modality.

Most of us think that if we treat rosacea aggressively up front, maybe we can prevent the phymatous changes. Prevention is key, just like prevention of acne scarring is easier than getting rid of scars once you have it.

Other than phyma, it’s the redness. Even the Food and Drug Administration–approved products we have for redness don’t work for flushing. Patients stand up to give up a presentation and “Oh no, here comes a red face.” That’s the hardest part to manage.

DN: How do beta-blockers fare at treating flushing?

Dr. Harper: They can help, but I don’t know that they can knock it out completely.

And we should remember that there are no FDA-approved beta-blockers to treat this. Most of the data we have are small case reports or case series. We don’t have a lot of data.

DN: Is there anything that’s used too much in rosacea?

Dr. Harper: Probably metronidazole. I understand why it’s used. It’s not a bad drug. But we have better drugs now.

I think we use metronidazole whenever things aren’t covered by insurance. And we use it to do too many things. Don’t try to make metronidazole do everything.

Metronidazole is FDA-approved for papules and pustules. It wasn’t ever intended to help with flushing and background erythema, and you’ll need to use something else with it.

DN: What’s coming down the line for rosacea?

Dr. Harper: We’ve got a couple new antibiotics: a new topical antibiotic and another oral antibiotic.

DN: Let’s talk about acne. Do you think isotretinoin is underused?

Dr. Harper: We should be using more of it. Why do we hold this drug hostage from our patients? In many people, it will cure their acne if they take it for just 5-6 months.

Are we worried about inflammatory bowel disease? The most recent studies say that’s not really an association. Are we worried about depression? We’ve had a meta-analysis that suggests if you take all that data, depression – if anything – gets better in people who take isotretinoin (Am J Gastroenterol. 2014 Apr;109[4]:563-9; J Am Acad Dermatol. 2017 Jun;76[6]:1068-76.e9).

We need to take [the risk with pregnancy] seriously. But we need to be putting more people on the drug and giving them the opportunity to be clear.

 

DN: What should be used less in acne?

Dr. Harper: We should use less antibiotics and more of everything else – more hormonal treatments, more isotretinoin, more topical retinoids.

That doesn’t mean no antibiotics. But instead of doing three repetitive courses of antibiotics, do one. If acne recurs, go to isotretinoin. Go to an alternative.

DN: What about spironolactone in acne?

Dr. Harper: It’s a blood pressure medicine, but it’s got an antiandrogenic qualities. It blocks the androgen receptor so it’s like getting the benefits of the birth control pill without the estrogen. It can be very beneficial for acne in women.

Its use increased from 2004 to 2013, and people are getting the hang of it. But when you compare it with the number of antibiotics prescribed, antibiotics are written a whole lot more (J Am Acad Dermatol. 2017 Sep;77[3],456-63.e4).

DN: Is there anything that is especially helpful in treating men?

Dr. Harper: Part of the way that birth control and spironolactone work is by decreasing sebum, and we don’t have anything like that for men. But potentially, there may be a topical antiandrogen product that decreases sebum.

DN: How do you deal with patients who are in a lot of distress because of acne or rosacea?

Dr. Harper: You listen to them and tell them you hear what they’re saying. “I understand that you want to be clear, and I’ll help you do that.”

Listen to why they’re not doing well and why they’re frustrated with what they’ve used. They might say, “I don’t use what you gave me because I don’t like the way it feels.” Or, “the drug that you prescribed is too expensive.”

If they’re really doing everything you said, and they’re not doing well, in both of those conditions it may be time for isotretinoin.

In acne, I’ve never seen it fail. It doesn’t work as predictably in rosacea, but it does pretty well if you do low-dose, intermittent isotretinoin.

DN: Do you ever try treatments that are unexpected for acne and rosacea?

Dr. Harper: If you use the right combination of what we have, and try to target pathogenesis, I don’t think we have to go off the reservation very often. We can get good results with what we have available.

The Coastal Dermatology Symposium is jointly presented by the University of Louisville and Global Academy for Medical Education. This publication and Global Academy for Medical Education are both owned by Frontline Medical Communications. Dr. Harper disclosed speaker/advisor relationships with Allergan, Bayer, BioPharmX, Galderma, La Roche–Posay, and Ortho Pharmaceutical, and has served as an investigator for Bayer.